SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First off, I am extremely grateful that I found this support forum/group. I've read through quite a bit of posts, but haven't found one (yet, still looking) that mirrors my situation, so I figured I start a post to get some much needed advice and feedback.

Quick background: My wife and I have been together since 2010 and we married in 2012. We have three kids together, ages 15, 13 and 6. Our relationship has never been one that I would call "picture perfect" or easy going. We both met fairly recently after having gone through divorces with our previous spouse(s). Difference between the two of us, is that she pursued the divorce with her ex while I suffered through lots of pain/heartache and misery through mine. So needless to say when we first met, I wasn't truly ready to jump right back into a relationship whereas she did. However, we did and she quickly moved into my apartment w/in the first 8 months and we get pregnant.

The reason I make note of that is b/c most of our arguments always go back to the beginning of our relationship. She claims that I never loved her as much as she loved me. This has been constantly brought up in practically every conversation. I admit that I wasn't as gung-ho to get back into a serious relationship, but with a baby on the way, there wasn't any way that I wasn't going to commit. Anyway, long story short - here are some bulletpoints and what transpired this past Monday.

Her complaints about me and what ends up surfacing in just about every argument we have:
- I never loved her as much as she loved me
- I regularly try to get out of having to visit her sisters (each time we have to visit, it's an overnighter due to distance)
- I regularly try to get out of having to go to her family functions (that wasn't the case in the beginning, but gradually became true).
- I have growingly become insecure and make jabs about her cheating (true) or doing something inappropriate
- Within the last 4 years, I have hidden the fact that I had been drinking, or lie about it. Numerous times. This has been one of the biggest arguments that we've had and in all honesty, has really pushed her away from me, little by little.
- That she is going to be 51 soon and she needs to know that she's going to enjoy the rest of her life and be with someone that truly loves her. I'm not him.

She has told me several times recently that she wants a separation, but only b/c she wants to see if that will make her miss me. Quick backstory on that, she has always worked from home while I worked in an office or away from home. I have since been working from home for the past 3 years and we see each other EVERY DAY (when she doesn't travel) and has IMO been a killer to our sex life and has made us become more like roommates than a couple. I don't believe that this is the reason for her wanting a separation, I believe it's b/c she wants to meet and date other people. She hasn't threatened divorce and I honestly get the feeling that she's wanting me to initiate it, or do something so stupid (DUI for example), that it would justify her leaving.

Fast forward to earlier this month. She has a work function in New Orleans. Normally when we call at night, she answers or texts back if she's out or busy. Two of the Three nights our calls went unanswered. When we did speak to her, she claims that she either didn't see the call or was asleep.' She returns home and we argue, as usual. She again tells me that she wants a separation. I suggest counseling. She doesn't want to do it. She tells me that I need to focus on myself (therapy or AA for drinking) before she'll do anything with me. I have done therapy and counseling a number of times but my therapist keeps telling me that my marriage/relationship is tied in with the drinking, so he continues to recommend a combo of individual and couples therapy. She refuses.

Just this past Monday I get a gut feeling that something is up, so while she is in the shower, I go through her phone. I specifically go to the messages between her and a co-workers as that's who I'm suspecting. I start scrolling and scrolling and there's a pit in my stomach, I start to shake, my heart is beating out of my chest. All I see is heart emoji this, heart emoji that, I miss you messages, GM beautiful (him to her), him sending her songs that remind him of her, she responding that she loves receiving the songs etc. This goes back to about the time she was in New Orleans. At this point, I don't know what to do, I'm speechless, shocked, hurt.

I wait for her to get out of the shower to ask her if she's been having an affair. At first, she gets defensive, telling me 'of course i bring this up just as she's about to leave for a business trip.' But then, she asks why I'm asking and what do I know. i tell her that I downloaded an app that told me that she's received a ton of messages with hearts, cue words like "I miss you," etc and that I've had a gut feeling about this for awhile. She asks how long I've known (sounds like an admission) and never denies it. Instead, she reminds me that she's been telling me that she's wanted a separation for awhile and told me that she wants to make sure she finds someone that will truly love her and appreciate her (another admission). She then blames her actions on all of my past transgressions/flaws that I've outlined earlier. Basically placing the blame on me as to why she did, and is doing, on me. This is where I'm mind fuc*ed. She won't even allow me to be mad at her b/c I pushed her to this place.

I still don't have all of the details, b/c I didn't want to make a scene in front of our three young kids and b/c she was about to leave on a business trip (she has since left and the co-worker will be there). So now I sit here not knowing the extent, or the details, just that it happened, or is still happening. I believe it to be the latter as I found out by going through text messages on her phone. I'm freakin lost, man. I have been a shell of myself these last 72 or so hours. I can't sleep, it is hard to breathe at times and I have such a knot in my stomach. I finally folded and started crying like a baby this afternoon. My whole world feels like it's fallen on top of me. I'm embarrassed, I'm confused and I dont' know what to do, or what the immediate future holds. Any and all advice and/or insight is greatly appreciated.

Ah, Beetrain, what a painful story.

First of all, just breathe. Even if worst comes to worst, you’re going to survive this. That’s the name of the website after all.

YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME. You bear no responsibility for her decision to cheat. None. Even if we stipulate that those "complaints" are valid, that doesn’t excuse infidelity. And we won’t stipulate that her complaints are valid, because they’re not. She doesn’t have some magic "love meter" to measure who loves who more (idiotic thing to talk about anyway). You don’t really want to hang with your in-laws? Wow, what a rarity. You don’t truly love her? Well, you know yourself that’s not true.

You were right to accuse her of cheating, so that doesn’t count. And she should have tried to help you with your drinking problem if you have one.

Anyway, she is going step-by-step through the Cheater’s Handbook. She started asking for a separation after her affair started. OK? So you can pinpoint the beginning of her A to around then. She’s blame-shifting, because after all, being a cheater is bad. She doesn’t want to be bad, so someone else has to be. She’s being dishonest. Worst of all for you, she is neither remorseful nor, at this point, willing to end the affair.

All I can tell you is to take care of yourself. See a doctor for sleeping pills, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medicine. Get some exercise and eat regularly. If you’ve been intimate with her since she started asking for a separation, get tested for STDs.

The other thing you can do is find out if this co-worker has a spouse. If he does, inform her of the affair. Exposure is one of the main things that ends As. You can consider telling other key stakeholders, like your/her parents and your older children. Let us know if you want advice on messaging for that. Why is this a key too? Because most affairs are fantasies. She’s likely experiencing "limerence", which to my simple brain is what people used to call "obsession". It operates like an addition, and like an addition, it’s hard to break it. Fantasies cannot compete with reality. Exposure makes it all real.

There’s really no other technique to end an active affair that I know about. She has to want to. The only thing you can do is make it real. No separation. Tell her you’re going to file, and don’t be bluffing.

She doesn’t get to tell you if you can be mad or not. You can be mad as hell. She’s cheating on you and blaming you for it. FUCK THAT.

Sorry brother.

Hello, beetrain6. Welcome to the greatest club that no one ever wanted to join. I'm sorry you've had to find us here.

First off, understand that for most people the betrayal of infidelity is a profound shock and a severe emotional and psychological trauma. It took several months just to recover from the shock of it all. I couldn't eat (lost about 30lbs in a couple of months or so), couldn't sleep, couldn't function as a normal human being, and the anxiety was brutal for the first couple of months.

What helped was trying to eat small healthy meals whenever I could, staying hydrated, OTC mild sleep aids and, as clichéd as it is, hitting the gym.

I'd highly recommend that you curb the drinking for a while. It may help in the short term. In the long-term it will only exasperate the pain and slow your recovery and healing. Attending an AA meeting or two would be a good idea.

There is no justification for infidelity. Nothing you ever did or didn't do, nothing you ever said or didn't say, would have made any difference at all. Your WW's affair is 100% on her and her alone. Blame-shifting is common, of course, because no one wants to be the villain of their own story.

If your WW really wants a separation or a divorce there's not much you can do about it. We often say around here that if you want to save your marriage you're going to have to risk its end.

Plenty of betrayed spouses do the "pick-me dance." It's a perfectly natural response. However, it never works! You can't "win" her back.

The day after d-day, I told my exww that: "I will not be married to a cheater." It wasn't a threat, it was a simple truth.

I known it's hard, man. BTDT. I'm truly sorry you're going through this nightmare.

I would like to complain a bit about your therapist. The notion that your drinking is tied to your marriage and you need MC to stop drinking doesn't sound like a constructive approach. If you started drinking, because of discomfort in your life, then that was the problem. With every bottle it is less probable that your habit is tied to your marriage. Regularly drinking alone at night can make even the best situation suicide level terrible. I would suggest to consider changing the therapist to someone who will really help you and really focus on that. I'm not justifying the cheating, because it's not justifiable, I'm writing it, because you will need a lot of strength now and you won't find it in the bottles.

Very sorry you find yourself here. You have already received great advice. Read in the healing library and pinned posts, and get tested for STDs. This is a time to implement the 180 which is meant for you to get to a point to get your bearings. Read about the 180 and implement. Do not engage with her. Do not argue. No idle chit chat. Take care of you. Eat healthy, exercise and cut the alcohol. Be there for your kids.

I want to emphasize that nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused her to cheat. Very common for a WS to try and blameshift, but do not accept it. She is entirely responsible for her cheating. Do not do the pick me dance. You can’t nice her back. If you want to change your life, do it for you, not to impress your WS. It appears that your WW has checked out of your M. Do see an attorney to learn your rights. If the coworker AP has a wife, expose the A to his partner. She has a right to know the truth of her life. Good luck.

Beetrain,

Sorry you had reason to find us. If you haven’t yet check out the healing library here. Pay particular attention to the simplified 180. As Unhinged mentioned do not do the pick me dance. To a cheater, especially an active one, it’s confirmation that they deserve validation from both you and the affair partner. Also read the pinned posts at the top of this forum.

I’d use today to set up consults with lawyers. Your wayward wife is showing zero remorse, as long as that’s the case reconciliation is not an option. Also research the AP, if he’s married tell his wife.

If you’re having trouble eating buy some protein shakes. Get tested for STD’s. Exercise, it’s a cliche but it helps. Pour out the alcohol, that shit will only make everything worse.

As the others have said her blaming you for her choices is absolute bullshit. She doesn’t want to be the villain so you have been assigned the role.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 2:51 PM, Friday, August 21st]

Thank you to everyone who has posted in response to my OP. Do you all recommend that I don't even talk to her about it? Our initial convo lasted about 15 minutes, at best, and then she started crying - but still wouldn't commit to working on our marriage (therapy) nor ending the affair. I don't know how long it's truly been going on, I don't know if it's just w/her co-worker or someone else, or I would certainly reach out to his wife and tell her what I know. What do I do at this point? She's in Boston for work, and called me twice today. First time to ask how the kids were doing (school just started this week) then how my job was going (I point out, never asking how I SPECIFICALLY was doing with things). Second time to vent about how her show is going and all of the obstacles she is having to overcome. Do I bring any of this up while she's gone when shee calls again? She'll be resentful for fighting with her while she's away for work of course. I have to answer her calls when she checks on the kids....

What about when she gets home next week. Do I just sit by idly and not talk to her? Won't that push her away more before we even have a chance to talk? I don't want the gory details, but would like an admission so that I can tell the Other partner's wife. I'm so confused. I broke down crying at the gym this morning just staring at myself in the mirror. I've never felt so low and dejected - and embarrassed. I hate this shit, but I see no way out.

I'll consult with an attorney on Monday as y'all recommended. I've already told my mom, which was hard to do and embarrassing. I think one of her sister's already knows. I doubt her dad does. I just don't want to start saying stuff w/out knowing all the facts if that makes any sense. Maybe it does, but only to me b/c my head is so out of whack right now.

I have not drank since I found out and have no plans on doing so anytime soon. I just feel so utterly awful for this to affect my kids. I don't know how this plays out, but I'm not feeling optimistic in the least, just broken

***Edit***
After I confronted her on Monday, she immediately went into her office and was on the phone. I have since checked her phone log thru AT&T and she called that same co-worker and talked for 42 minutes

[This message edited by beetrain6 at 8:22 PM, Friday, August 21st]

Well, that 42 minute call is a pretty dead giveaway as to who the AP is, in addition to the texts you saw. Brother you know who it is. And you already got an admission, in your first post. She asked you how long you’ve known. That’s clear!

You have one big speech to give. You can do it over the phone or when she gets back. Frankly, I might do it over the phone since she’s on another trip with her AP. Might as well ruin it.

The speech is called the Sandwich Speech. Bigger explains it here (p11):

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/667020/trying-to-keep-calm-understanding-and-be-kind-but-im-so-hurt/?ap=201

In your case it would be something like:

WW I truly love you. I always saw us together and I still want that to be possible. With that said, I've realized that losing you and not having you in my life would hurt, what is worse is sharing you with someone else. I cannot and will not do that.

We both know you’re having an affair. We both know you only asked for a separation so that you could peruse that affair without guilt or interference. A test run to see if you like him better. So I have made the decision to get myself out of infidelity. I won’t share you and I won’t be your backup plan. I need to separate myself from this situation and move on. They say if you love someone, set them free. So you are free. You are free to go drink with AP, sext with AP, sleep with him, whatever. Just not as my wife.

I’m going to begin the process of emotionally detaching from you. I have contacted a lawyer and am preparing to file for divorce.

If you do wish to remain my partner then you have a short window to make that clear to me. You need to verbally and very clearly SHOW me that you want me, and that you agree to the conditions like total accountability, absolutely no contact with AP, and therapy. No contact with AP means one of you will have to leave your job.

Do that and convince me you are on board through your actions, and I might start believing we have a real future. Just know that I’m at peace with my present decision because divorce is better than feeling the pain of sharing you, and the further along I go the less inclined I will be to turn back.

After that (or until then) I think you should do the 180: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/
The key bits are in the FAQs.

Don’t answer any texts that aren’t about the kids. Get off the phone politely if she’s not talking about the kids. "How’s your job going?" "Great. Was there anything you needed to tell me about the kids?" "No, I just wanted to see how your day was going." "Going great. Bye-bye."

Hang in there. You just found out. It will get better. You have nothing to be embarrassed about. She’s the one who’s cheating!

Tell anyone you wish to. Stick to the facts you know. The texts, the request for separation, the "how long have you known."

You will be on an emotional rollercoaster for a period as you process her betrayal. The 180 is for you to get a hold of your emotions and get your mental bearings. You don’t have to be nasty or mean. No idle chit chat. She is cheating and most cheaters will lie on initial confrontation. You can give her one chance to give you the details but don’t get your hopes up.
The sandwich speech is an excellent approach. Don’t worry about pushing her away. You know what does push a WS away? Doing the pick me dance and hovering over her trying to convince her you have changed and nice her back. Be firm. Respect yourself. Always value yourself. It is said here that often you have to risk losing the M, in order to have a chance to save it. You deserve a faithful and loving partner.

Again, thank you all for the feedback.
Since this is so very fresh, is it appropriate for the sandwich speech this early on without hearing her out? I haven't consulted with an attorney yet. We still live in the same house and have three kids. Does one of us move out? I don't think that it should be me.....I'd love to say that to her and give her an ultimatum, but I can promise you that she's not just going to up and quit her job. She's been there for 16 years and so has he. They live in different states, but still work very closely together and travel multiple times out of the year.

I hate to admit this, but I'm scared. I'm scared as to how she'll react and that she'll pick him over me moving forward. I'm scared of the unknown, the 'what's next.' Not just for me, but for my kids, mutual friends etc.

I’m sorry Beetrain. Of course you’re scared. How could you not be?

It’s axiomatic that affair partners cannot see each other for reconciliation to work. That means they can’t work together. You will never feel safe and secure if they’re still in contact. There’s always an exception to ever rule of course, but I think this one’s been tried and tested…

At the end of the day, she chose to cheat at work. If keeping her family together is her priority, then leaving her job. Sucks for her, but that’s going to be a choice for her. You don’t make it an ultimatum, I don’t think. You ask her to decide what she wants and then make her own choices accordingly. Her actions will tell you everything you need to know.

You can wait until you talk to an attorney if it will make you feel better. I’m not sure what that conversation is going to change for you?

Just to be clear, the Sandwich speech is about setting and enforcing your own personal boundaries. It does not mean you are committed to divorce. It means that you are committed to getting out of infidelity. At the end of the speech, you see that you leave a window open for her to try to save the marriage. So she can make her case to you and do everything to try to stop the D if that’s what she wants.

But a big part of it is that the A has to end first. There’s no point in "hearing her out" if she’s not going to stop cheating on you. So when she says you don’t like going to my sisters or whatever, you say "if we were working on our marriage I’d be happy to talk about that. But since you’re having an affair there’s no point."

Does that make sense? There’s no point in hearing her out while she’s involved with someone else.

[This message edited by Letmebefrank at 10:02 PM, Friday, August 21st]

You have been heard! Of course you are scared. Your WW’s betrayal has blown up your life and the lives of your children. It is unbelievably unfair to you and your kids. But the advice offered is to help you move on and get out of infidelity sooner than later. The only thing worse than losing your M, is to live in infidelity with a third person in your M. That is intolerable and it will destroy you eventually. What is your WW going to say when you ask her to explain. Based on what you share, she will blame you which is total B.S. She is cheating because she is broken. She is cheating because she wants to, not because of anything you have done. You cannot fix her. You cannot make her want your M. She is cheating because she has the capacity to use any resentment built up in your M to try and justify the inexcusable. You are giving her a chance to choose your M. You will make it through this to a better place.

I just asked AI to give the definition of manipulation.
Manipulation is a sneaky way to control or influence. Some times people use it to get what they want at the cost of others. It relies on tricks, lies and hidden pressure instead of honesty. The term gaslighting which makes you doubt your own memory or senses. Guilt trips, making you feel bad so you do what they want. The silent treatment, ignoring you to punish you or force compliance, and playing the victim blaming others to escape responsibility for their actions.
Does this ring a bell?

If you want to stop the affair find AP’s wife and tell her. Most of the time the other man is looking for no strings attached sex, not losing half his shit and going 50/50 with his kids. Not to mention possible damage to his career. Nine out ten he throws your WW under the bus to try and save his marriage. That could be an educational moment for her.

Of course there’s no guarantee your marriage will survive. But making the affair cost something to maintain ends the fantasy.

I'm still trying to locate anything online that would give me her contact info. He is nowhere to be found on FB, Insta or anything else that I can find. I tried a reverse tel # search and confirmed his address, but it doesn't give his wife's info w/out having to pay, assuming the site will even provide me with a valid name and number.

The thing that's killing me the most right now is the fact that she's not here where I can talk to her person-to-person / face to face so that I can discuss this in depth. If I call her while she's out w/a client or w/a group, she'd likely get pissed and disconnect. SO, my only other option is waiting to have that talk with her next Thursday, which feels like an eternity from now. I know everyone says I need to eat, but I can't. I haven't had anything since Wednesday afternoon. The pit in my stomach hurts too much and the thought of eating makes me feel nauseous. I'll try to eat some string cheese or something at some point as I know I need to.

The recommendation to consult w/a dr. for anti-anxiety is definitely something I'm going to do on Monday - assuming I can keep it together that long. The chest pain and difficulty breathing is relentless.

All that said, I am still so freaking confused at this whole situation. It is like we weren't even together for 16 years, like it meant nothing. Like I mean and/or meant nothing. How could she rip out my heart and not feel any remorse? Zero. I have many flaws, but I never cheated. Part of me is so pissed at myself for how this is making me feel b/c when I look back at the last 12-18 months, I wasn't happy - I genuinely wasn't (thus the drinking), but I kept it going to support the family and to make sure that my kids weren't brought up in a broken home, as I was. But all I keep focusing on is what she's done to me. A total mind F and I hate her for that.

I so appreciate all of you and your advice. I know everyone says I'm going to get through this, but I'm not very optimistic.